Curse

Hengis · May 02, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I actually think that Hard Mode is pretty reasonably balanced. So far I have only concentrated on Vanquishing rather than missions though and have done 17 of the Elona maps, including all of the Desolation.

These have all been done either alone with hench/heroes, or with one of my guild mates and six heros.

You cannot play these areas exactly like normal mode and just "steamroller" through them though. You do to a degree at least have to think about pulling, target selection, positioning and in some cases change your and your heroes' builds.

This reminds me a little of my first time going through Prophecies two years ago, and the enjoyment I got from beating a particularly difficult map.

Alas Poor Yorick · May 02, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Hmmm - interesting

I see that several who posted here saying they got great drops were playing with other people - also noted on other threads.

Thought I would try something out. I and my sons have a spare account we use for courier service. So I fired it up on my lap top and formed a party with my regular account.

Ran the two missions on Shing Jea with my spare character just sitting there at the beginning.

Got very good drops in normal mode!

Will be interesting to see what the tests being done now comparing human parties with h+h parties will show.

Suggestion for all you bot farmers out there, just send your bots out in parties of two or more and rake in the gold!

Seriously, I hope this gets figured out. It has always been a great game with stunning graphics and enough challenge to be fun. The concept and execution were tremendous. I just can't figure out why they decided to nerf everyone's income if the problem was that some high end items were becoming too expensive. A less invasive and more effective way would have been to just increase the availability or drop rate of those particular items.

lyra_song · May 02, 2007, 02:19 PM // 14:19

The changes are good but only if they continue in the theme of killing bots, giving casual gamers access to max level weapons + MODS and armor + INSIGNIAS & RUNES + buying skills through CASUAL play.

Right now loot scaling is an incomplete solution.
Right now loot scaling rewards solo farmers in hard mode only.

The casual gamer is not being helped at all.

greenthumb · May 02, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Just wondering...how is the casual gamer being hurt or a concern in this? What are the realistic expectations of a casual gamer?

What can't casual gamers afford that they really need to enjoy playing? 15K armor, rare-skinned weapons? If someone is a casual gamer, they should be fine with 1.5K armor and collector weapons and do fine in the game.

semantic · May 02, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hengis Stone

This reminds me a little of my first time going through Prophecies two years ago, and the enjoyment I got from beating a particularly difficult map.

That's exactly it. It makes every area the same type of fun we had when the game first released, before any of the standard cheese tactics were invented. While I'm vanquishing an area, I find myself thinking "now this is the kind of play experience they had in mind for this area, but they were forced to scale it to fit character progression."

netniwk · May 02, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

hard mode=fine(except hero AI)
loot scalling=the suxx0r

Guildmaster Cain · May 03, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_groovy

all i can say is this

And that is my first. And I did a LOOOOOOOOT of farming in that time. Got it from a locked chest in HM. meh

OMG I had exactly the same experience yesterday... only I got 2800 hrs. Too bad Sup Vigor is like 20k lately.

And its not that I am unlucky, I get loads of rare items. Even in teams of 8, it is not unlikely that I get 3-5 rares in a row, when the rest walks around with empty hands. Or 5-man ORO farms with 6 greens in a row for me and a very frustrated group wanting to lynch me.

Alex the Great · May 03, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

look, hard core players play more so they got more money. THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT. I am no hardcore player, as I have only played around 600 hours in 10 months (and about 75 of them were afk lol). I like to buy greens with the stats I need, Currently I have all my characters outfitted with forgotten weapons (forgotten sword, forgotten longbow, healing forgotten sceptor) or golds (2 totem axe equivelents)

Kashrlyyk · May 03, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenthumb

..
What can't casual gamers afford that they really need to enjoy playing? 15K armor, rare-skinned weapons? If someone is a casual gamer, they should be fine with 1.5K armor and collector weapons and do fine in the game.

No, they shouldn´t be fine with that. They should be happy, yes. They should be happy, that they are allowed to even play the game. Who cares about the longtime motivation for probably the largest group of players?

What I need to enjoy the game, is an achievalbe goal, and it has to be achievable in an amount of time, that I think, is appropriate.

Personette · May 03, 2007, 12:16 PM // 12:16

I play with people - I play without people - the results are more or less the same. Hard mode just isn't fun for me. There's no need to bring up Vizunah Square or any other extra-hard mission (I've always breezed through Vizunah Square on normal mode - Ruins of Morah on the other hand...), I'm pretty much stumped all along the way.

Let me repeat - I'm fine with this, I'm glad all you people who love Hard Mode have it, But don't imagine that most players would be just fine if they'd only slow down and rub two brains cells together.

rohlfinator · May 03, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

What I need to enjoy the game, is an achievalbe goal, and it has to be achievable in an amount of time, that I think, is appropriate.

full set of collector armor - practically free
full set of cheap runes - 500g
piece of 1.5k armor - 1.5k + mats
full set of moderately priced runes - 1-5k
full set of 1.5k armor - 7.5k + mats
cheap green weapon - 5-10k
piece of 15k armor - 15k + mats
unlock all core skills for your primary - 40k
piece of Vabbian armor - 5k + rubies/saph + mats
piece of Obsidian armor - 15k + ectos/shards + mats
unlock skills from one campaign for your primary - 65-75k
full set of 15k armor - 75k + mats
unlock all skills for primary profession - 75-130k
unlock skills from one campaign for primary and secondary - 130-150k
full set of Vabbian armor - 25k + rubies/saph + mats
unlock all skills for primary and secondary - 150-260k
unlock all skills in the game - 1134k
rare-skinned weapons - 100k + ectos
full set of Obsidian armor - 75k + ectos/shards + mats

mix and match above suggestions - pretty much any price you can think of

I'm sure there is something in that list that is achievable in a reasonable amount of time, regardless of how much you play. If casual players are setting their sights toward the bottom of the list, they're only fooling themselves and are bound to wind up disappointed.

Gaia_Hunter · May 03, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Its still too soon to say how the changes are affecting the economy of GW.

At first glance, the prices of a number of expensive items dropped, achieving the desired effect.

But we still need more time to see if that is due to an increase in numbers available or due to fear of economic crash (as in ectos case for example) or because its a bit harder to make money to spend in stuff like SoC for skill hunter titles and such, wich makes people to sell everything they got as fast as they can before prices dwindle.

While rare items are less rare (^^), most still are crap, with mods noone will ever spend a dime to get. And really rare skins are still rare, and still sell very high.

The economy before was a known beast, now its still something vague and unpredictable. Time will tell, but one thing is certain, money make from runs (unless u get a lucky drop) got harder/more time consuming to get.

About the hardmode play.
It can be done, but pug play got more frustrating then ever, cause now a wrong skill in someone skill bar can cause faillure for the entire party.

Parties now need to be perfect tuned, with the right proportion of melee, healing, nukers and support.

Its more challeging, but for people without a guild or without good knowledge of the game and/or some experience of pvp(or at least observer mode) it can be hard, really hard. I guess that was the point, but the rewards you get in most cases, unless you are for the title thingie, dont cover the trouble you take.